How to combine clinical work with a non-clinical interest. With Heerani Woodun

[00:00:00] Mat: Welcome to Doctors at Work. My name is Mat Daniel and this podcast is about doctors’ careers. Today I’m having a discussion with Heerani Woodun and we’re talking about how to combine clinical work with a non-clinical interest. Now many of us have interests outside of clinical work, but trying to find the time to pursue them is always a challenge.

Heerani Woodun dances, she has a YouTube channel, and recently won the Queen Miss Africa UK competition. In this episode, she tells me how she manages to combine clinical work with those outside interests. For her, it’s not about having either clinical or non-clinical activity, it’s about having both. And the secret is to plan ahead and to adjust your activities based on what the demands are at different points in your career.

If you have a really busy clinical time coming up, then you do a little bit less of the non-clinical stuff. When your clinical life is a little bit easier, then you can dial up the non-clinical career. So it’s not making a choice that you do either one or the other. You can do both, but it’s a question of continuously adjusting them to make sure that the two match up, depending on what.

Both of those things need, and it’s also important to remember that far from the nonclinical activities being a drain on your clinical work, they actually fuel your energy and they make your clinical career better in the long term. Hope it’s useful.

Welcome Heerani. Tell me a little bit about yourself.

[00:01:30] Heerani: Thank you. So I am Heerani Woodun. I’m originally from a tiny but beautiful island of Mauritius, and I came to study all the way in England at Newcastle slash Durham Medical School in 2011, and I graduated in 2016. Since then, I’ve done my foundation years at Newcastle, followed by a course of medical training, because I couldn’t get into course training on the first attempt.

And that was done in Sheffield and then managed to get into core surgical training in 2020 since when I’ve met Mr. Daniel yourself at QMC. And that’s my clinical professional background and I’m still currently I’m actually doing a clinical teaching fellow job as I have always been interested in teaching.

And while applying for another attempt to the ST3 ENT training. So that’s a little bit about my clinical background. I do have quite a busy extracurricular life. I am a semi professional dancer of classical Indian and modern Bollywood dance and I’m part of a couple of companies where we do workshops in schools and we also look at the mental wellbeing of residents in care homes.

That is something that I hold very dear to heart. I also have been recently part of a very big event where I was crowned queen and the winner of a pageant. And that pageant is a beauty pageant, but also a woman empowerment forum pageant. And I’ve been crowned Miss Africa UK 2023. And that was in, thank you.

That was at the beginning of September. And since then, I have also worked with a charity organization which also I chose to be in the line of Women Empowerment. So it’s the African Women Empowerment Forum, and they’re based in Nottingham City Centre, and I’m the ambassador. So we had to get involved in a charity organization, and so that’s the one I had chosen, and I have, I’m still working with them.

And I have recently been featured in Nottingham Post. And Newark Advertiser. And to add to the list of my extracurricular I am a YouTube influencer with my dance channel and I do have channel for my pet rabbits. So quite a few different things there. But as a background, yeah, I think that would add onto the publications and the projects and the Crips and the audits that I have in my sleeve.

But these are the other things I’m involved. Oh, and I think lastly, one of the other aspects is the leadership roles around the BMA. I’ve been a Conference Agenda Committee member, so for the last couple of years, so organizing the Junior Doctors Conference with the BMA. So I’ve had that role for the last couple of years.

[00:04:12] Mat: That all is absolutely amazing, and I particularly invited you to the discussion today because I think it would be really useful to share your tips about how you’ve managed to combine all of that with clinical work, because I think lots of us do clinical work and lots of us are busy.

And there’s always a thing when you think, Oh, this would be lovely to do, this is my hobby or, it might be family or it might be a hobby or activity or something else, but then trying to create something that enables you to do all of those things.

That’s always the challenge. So maybe if I kind of start at the beginning, OK, so you qualified as a doctor. How did you start doing all of this extracurricular work in addition to being a really busy clinician?

[00:04:54] Heerani: So actually it. It is something that I’ve had since quite a young age.

So at high school, at school, at college, I’ve always wanted to, I always loved dancing. So I always wanted to lead a group and do shows and programs and also get involved in sports and being sports captain. So I’ve had that direction orientations towards some leadership roles. I think I worked like working with a team.

So now coming here and as a I did stop it. I have to admit, I did stop it at the beginning of my career and I did feel that the, that it was because I just didn’t have time. I wanted to get better at my job. I find it quite challenging to start an F1 job. Just because of this just sudden change to all the responsibility.

So actually turned down a lot on my extracurricular, but then that’s when I felt I’m not being myself. I’m not being me because I needed to get out there and not be consumed by medicine and so then I decided to start from where I know that I have a passion and that’s dance. So I got involved with in Sheffield, where I did my core medical training.

And it was a cultural day and I met the people who were doing the performances. I asked for a cut and I said let’s do it. I want to be part of this. So I got in touch with one of the dancers and she was actually a classical dance teacher. Since then, I started working alongside with her rather than being a student.

And then we formed part of this culture group and then we went together and performed in different areas. And also just volunteering. To promote cultural diversity. So that’s the other thing is I was homesick. So I was Oh, I was trying to engage with the community here. And, but I also wanted a little bit of my culture.

So I was like, okay, let me try to voluntarily bring that forward. And since then, I think it did make me feel that I’m UK and I miss my kind of homeless and yeah, I do feel that this is what kind of drew me to get into that and looking for these opportunities is definitely very important.

[00:07:06] Mat: So I think many people listening will be amazed that you actually know people that are non-doctors because you know so many doctors, they only know other doctors, but there’s actually a whole side to you. that associates with people who are not doctors. Who knew that there are people that are not doctors out there? And how do those people, how do those people see you?

[00:07:27] Heerani: Oh people are not doctors. They’re completely amazed by what I do. Again they feel that, how, where do I have the time? And I do think it’s all in the mind. If you have the mental strength to realize this is what you want to do, somehow the time just comes up in your break and sometimes you’re like, Oh, actually, if I don’t want to think about something at the end of the day, I’ll do it at the beginning of the day.

So that it allows me to give time to that particular task. Going back to the question regarding non doctors, they’re completely amazed and they actually yeah, they just, they actually feel that what I say and my words have more have quite big significance, especially among the team, for example, as the Miss Africa UK, when they know I’m a doctor and suddenly all my words make a bit more sense or so.

Yeah, I can see that they are quite impressed with that.

[00:08:24] Mat: I think as doctors we’re quite well respected and I think a lot of time we don’t realize how much credibility we have in the general public and you can use that for the good. Yeah, exactly as you’re doing you know your credibility that you have you using that to support.

a good cause that you’re passionate about. If I turn it the other way around, so when you go to work and you tell doctors that you do all of this stuff outside of clinical work, what kind of reception do you have from the doctors?

[00:08:54] Heerani: Yes. So to be honest, it could potentially be the complete opposite sometimes, but not always.

Yeah, so I’ve had comments. How? Why do you need sometimes? Why do you need to do all of this? And do you even have time? And initially, I did feel a sense of embarrassment among my colleagues, just because I am spending more time doing something else that’s not medicine. So it was actually hard to push that away initially, and to just think, actually.

It’s okay to give some time to extracurricular at the moment in my life because I do know that in the future when I’m a consultant, when I’m in a registrar, I will even have less time to dedicate. So this I felt was the right time in my career to take a bit of a break. To do this clinical teaching fellow job or to get a couple of years out.

So it the silver lining of not getting a training number was to take this as an opportunity. And so then, when I mentioned this kind of, when I explained, this is why I’m doing this at this particular time in my life, that does change perceptions. So initially yeah, I did feel that I might be judged by other doctors but.

Actually, I’ve received a lot of support from my clinical teaching fellow team at UMC, and they voted for me, and they’ve watched, and so yeah, they watched the pictures, the videos, and so it’s been actually great, yeah.

[00:10:20] Mat: And I suppose there’s a bit of a tension because you think there’s all of this other stuff that, that, you know, that you or I or somebody else might want to do, and then you think, Do I do it now?

Or, I have this hobby that’s important to me. Do I do it now or do I do it in 10 years’ time? And that’s a very individual balance. And as you said, in your case, the stuff that you want to do now seemed to be the right time. But if somebody came to you and said, there’s all of this stuff that I want to do in my, in addition to my clinical work, I don’t know, do I do it now?

Or do I do it in 10 years’ time? What kind of tips would you have for somebody?

[00:10:55] Heerani: So I would first of all, I would want to explore. What is the I would tell them to basically think about the activity that you want to do, how much time will it consume how much commitment, because I do believe that if you’re getting into a project, if you are getting into a program or any activity, the commitment is needed.

So if that particular job and task will, and the commitment. It will match to the expectation of the people receiving it and you doing the activity and according to what’s the priority at this point in time. So for example I do know currently now the applications are out. So to me, my priorities was changed now because I do want to get the attempt successful this time.

So for the next few months, my priorities would change towards my applications. I was my clinical life. So my extra. We have to take a bit of a back, backseat. So similar to that to, to the person who will come and ask me, I would say, we assess the situation, look at your clinical life, look at your personal life.

What is the priority at this point in time? And I have some short-term goals, long term goals. And then ideally, we want to say, if you’re thinking of something, do it now, because in 10 years’ time. You might not have the same motivation, you might, your situation might change, COVID might happen, something might happen.

So if it’s keen, if it’s the environment is conducive to you doing the activity now, I would push for the now.

[00:12:26] Mat: And I like the fact that as you’ve outlined it, it’s not a binary. It’s not a question that you do it or you don’t do it. Because what I’m hearing you say that there’s bits that you can do now.

And you do it for a bit. And then, for the next few months, you won’t be doing it because you’ve got applications. And then after that you might have some time again. So it’s not that you either do it or you don’t do it but you do it at different intensities. Yes. Over a period of time.

Yes. You dial it up and down depending on how much time you have and where your career is, because I’m guessing that the, you started at the beginning talking about why you did it, and I’m going to come back to that in a second, but because it’s very easy to say to yourself, okay, this stuff really matters to me, but I haven’t got time for the next 10 years.

Yeah. And you, because I want to prioritize my career for 10 years and that’s fine. Might, you might devote all your time to the career, but you’re probably going to burn out in the process. Or who else who, who else knows what might happen. Or you might never get there.

We, because in 10 years’ time, if you talk about dancing, for example, in 10 years’ time, you might not be able to do. What you do in a development, but equally if you just focus all of your time on extracurricular activity and you don’t spend any time on your career, then the career doesn’t progress either.

So I really like this idea that it’s not that you either do it or you don’t do it, but you do it, but you dial it up and down depending on what your career demands.

[00:13:50] Heerani: Yeah, you summed it up absolutely perfectly. This is exactly what I wanted to explain.

[00:13:55] Mat: Yes. Okay. You explained earlier about what it gives you.

So I’m thinking maybe, in, in a broader sense why would a really busy doctor want to spend some of the time doing non-clinical work?

[00:14:08] Heerani: Yeah, so I do believe in the mental strength that you need to do any task that you, whether it’s clinical or non-clinical work. And to have this mental strength, to have this this energy to be doing something else or to do your clinical work, you do need to find something to fuel it.

And to me the extracurricular activities that I indulge in does give me that energy when I, the time I spend away from my clinical work. Is the fuel to the time that I will be spending in my clinical work. So mental health is very important. It is the core of it all, I think. And yeah sorry, I just got lost there.

So I was just, we might need to repeat that question.

[00:14:48] Mat: No, I actually, I love this idea that this is something that fuels the energy, because if we spend all of our time giving and giving and giving. Which loads, loads of us, that’s the way that we’re programmed, isn’t it? We come into healthcare because we want to give and we give.

But all the data suggests that’s a recipe for burnout, yeah? Because we know that people who just give and give, they are exactly the people that end up burning out. Giving and giving, that, that isn’t a long-term sustainable strategy. Whereas what I’m hearing in you is saying…

Is there’s a recognition that you can’t just give and give. If you want to give and give in a sustainable long-term way, then you need to find times where, you fuel your energy. And in your case, your energy comes from these extracurricular activities. I hope you’re enjoying the show. If you are, please click subscribe so you will be notified when new episodes come out.

This podcast is part of my mission to help doctors create successful and meaningful careers. You can be part of that mission, too, by forwarding this show to any one person who you think might benefit from listening. Thank you. Now on with the show. I suppose then, a related question then is, okay, so we’ve established why You might want to do that, but then there’s the how do you actually make it happen?

How do you, how would you actually balance your time? So what practical tips might you have for somebody who says okay, I’ve got this stuff that I love and I recognize I’m going to be dialling it up and down depending on what my career demands. And I recognize that this matters because this is fuelling my energy and this is, burnout prevention, if you like or, building up my energy.

But then, I’m busy. I’ve got this. I’m tired. I’ve got an exam. What would be your tips to, to actually making it happen?

[00:16:28] Heerani: Yeah. Yeah. So the practical tips are the ones that I’ve had to learn the hard way. I Do know we all say time management and planning, but it is the truth, planning what you need to do.

So this whole, I know a lot of people do like a list of things to do, but it actually is important. So making a list of what you need to do, but also. from seeing how works for what works for you. For example, some people like working consistently and some people like a bit need a bit of stress to work. So for me, I’ve learned over the years that I need a little bit of this stress to work.

So what I do is actually Myself. I create some mini deadlines. For example, I’ve got I’ve got the application on one side for SC3s. I’ve got a charity dinner I’m organizing in a month’s time. And I’ve got a lot of these other projects. What I’m trying to do now is to With mini deadlines, so in, in two weeks’ time, I should be able to, I should have done XYZ in another two weeks.

This is what I aim to do. So I did, it’s a little bit like a PDP that we have to do for work, but actually I used that for my extracurricular activities as well because then these mini deadlines give me a bit of a push to do it, a catalyst. And then once I get that done, I don’t actually spend.

all my time or every day of the week on something as well. So I would say once a week for two hours, I would spend time on my YouTube channel on, on, on this my channel for the rabbits twice, two hours a week and put those plans. And again, if something else takes priority for the next week, I will bump that up.

Putting mini deadlines helps me having a calendar, using a calendar, whether it’s on your phone or whether it’s on a diary that does help. And one of the main things is having a support network. So partners, family, friends who actually you can, to whom you can talk to, you can talk to and say, Oh my gosh, I’ve got so many things to do.

And then suddenly someone might just tell you. Why don’t you do it this way? And it suddenly lights up and just simple ideas that you’re not thinking. So if some particular task is bothering you, I would say speak to someone, maybe if it’s about clinical work, they may be able to give you another perception of it.

So I would always encourage to anything that’s bothering you and you seem you can’t cope or you can’t get on top of, I would say talk to it to another colleague, another doctor colleague, but also somebody else. Who’s not a doctor, so they can give you a different point of view. So that did help me a lot, especially planning for interview questions for the pageant.

I had to ask non doctors, but doctors as well, just to help me. And I did get the best interview one for that one. So that would be and I think in terms of other practical steps is. Working with people to, so choosing the projects you want to do as a person who likes saying yes all the time.

You, and I’m sure a lot of doctors are like that. We like to say, yes, we don’t want to disappoint, we want to maintain this high expectation. We want to be reliable. So we say yes to loads of projects. However, our time is not finite. Our energy is not finite. So it took me, again, I had to learn it the hard way to actually.

Put my foot down and say, I’m sorry, I can’t do this project at this point in time. And it depends how you say it. I like to be very polite. I like to be very diplomatic about it. And very gentle about it. You want to work with people who understand your side of the story Throughout this whole year and getting the pageant and winning and everything.

I did have to work with people who need more from me, need more. For example replying straight away or I need to be on time. I need to be this, I need to be that. And to me, compared to my dance partner who I’ve worked with for the last four years, she understands me, she understands I can be busy, I may not reply on the same day or, and so I had to choose who are the people I can work with just so that I can manage all of this.

So I think this is a hard one to do, to say no to projects, but if it’s getting too much on your plate, if you have too much on your plate, You do have to work with the people who understand you better, I think.

[00:20:52] Mat: Have you got any mistakes that you’ve made that you can share?

[00:20:57] Heerani: Yeah. Oh, definitely.

There’s quite a few. In terms of mistakes I, potentially, again, it’s to do with trying not to appear too Basically trying to appear to be very reliable, so sometimes I may not say that I’m struggling at the moment, and so I would, yeah, I wouldn’t tell that to my line manager, I would try to get things done, but then I get things done quickly, or in a bit of a way that they’re like, oh, I’m not responding, or I’m taking, I’m delaying things, but I’m not telling people what’s going on so I do feel that Then once I tell the situation and three days later I email my team members saying actually this has happened so I’m sorry that I’m having to take some time to reply to this or to do this task or to submit this and then they understand.

And then I’ve even received phone calls from my line manager saying, why don’t you tell us, you should be telling us these things because we can find ways where to support you. So I think again, just talking about it, But also, not wanting to be considered as unreliable so that has my mistakes do stem up from taking too much on and then suddenly going blank to everyone, unless it’s the one thing that that is really important for that week.

So informing them, informing people of, okay, I’m going to take a time out now. So this is something I could have done better.

[00:22:31] Mat: I have to say that’s a great tip actually for whether you have a hobby outside of clinical work or not because you know sometimes there’s bits of clinical work that are more important than other bits but it’s giving people realistic expectations about what you deliver and how you deliver.

Because most of us, we can, as long as we know how somebody is, we can all work with that, can’t we? If you know that somebody takes X or that they have to be asked again, or it doesn’t really matter, you just need to know how somebody works, isn’t it? And particularly if somebody has got.

A lot on their plate for whatever reason, whether that’s family or whether that’s hobbies Then it’s really useful for people that they work with to know that because you know We’re all for you. It might be hobbies for somebody else to be an aging parent or you know Sort of sick children or personal health problem or whatever or a house sale that’s really complicated.

Okay, I think I was interested in the beginning when you, so you came to UK and then you were really interested in dance and you said that you wanted to do that to try and engage with that community a bit more. But I’m guessing that meant that you went into a world out there that wasn’t doctors to see people that you never met before.

And you’ve found. And then created a community outside the medicine. So that was that sounds quite scary.

[00:23:49] Heerani: Yes, it was. It was very much the fact that I felt medicine was my life in the UK. The only thing that I would identify myself is medicine, my job. And just suddenly, as you rightly said, just putting myself out there with people who had.

don’t have anything in common with. It’s not even the same type of dance. So it is scary. But I think when you put, once you do it once. It gets easier. It gets easier. And then you and this is the self confidence that I did. I did try to work on and I have tried to work and I am confident I work in my comfort zone, but I didn’t feel self-confident in myself.

in the public or in the bigger social network or just trying to make conversation that’s not medicine. I’d really struggled with that. And this is one of the reasons that pushed me to actually get into the pageant as well. And then suddenly I’m talking to people about things other than medicine.

It’s been a, it’s been a great social development.

[00:24:49] Mat: So I think this is going to be a shock to people listening because people probably think, Oh, she’s this super competent woman. She’s got it all. She’s got all this confidence. She goes out there and actually you’re saying something exactly the opposite.

[00:25:02] Heerani: Yeah, it did surprise quite a few people when I said, actually, I’m not that self-confident when I’m not at work.

[00:25:09] Mat: Okay. What, so if I think of those first steps, yeah, there you are, there’s your identity as a doctor, but you’ve got all of this other stuff that you’re interested also.

And then you’re making the first step when you’re going out into the non-medical world. Trying to make connections with people. So what were you saying? What was your mind saying to you to help you make those steps?

[00:25:31] Heerani: So to help me make steps to get into, it was just telling me that you just have to do it because if you don’t, because otherwise this is how your life will be.

This is what’s happened before, what you’ve been experiencing. This is what it would be like. So my mind was telling me to take the leap and discover the other side of the world. I was also looking for support as well. So I was supported by my parents to say, do it. Initially, I have to admit that a lot of people wanted me to, for example, my parents would be like, Oh yeah, Do the career bit first, get into your ENT and then do these things.

So again, it was trying to rebel against that and talking to myself, I’ve got the time now and this is the opportunity presenting itself. For example, seeing things on social media, reading a bit more gook, googling looking for something. And I’ve actually. been eyeing this kind of pattern for some time and but I just didn’t have the time to do it.

So it was that little push that I had when by family, by support network to say to do it. So I think my mind was very much influenced by other people supporting it.

[00:26:40] Mat: So it’s recognition that, the time is right. Maybe it wasn’t before, might not be in the future, but it was that the time was right, and you had support.

And I really like this idea that That if you don’t do it, nothing will change. Yeah, because, because all of us spend an awful lot of our lives moaning about our misery. I’m an expert on that Hirani. So I love moaning about sort of misery, but you’re right actually, because then you think do something about it.

And it’s, and then one thing, so it’s too difficult. I don’t know anybody. What will they think of me? People will judge me, but actually, your mindset was, yeah, people will judge me, and yeah, it’ll be difficult, if I if this is how my life is, if I want to make change, this is the leap that I need to make and it’s that recognizing that if you want to make changes to how your life is, which you did, then yeah, there’s a leap that needs to be made, because if you don’t make that leap, the life will never change.

[00:27:35] Heerani: Yeah, that’s correct. And I was saying that I do feel and that my life is like a creep as well, like a quality improvement project, but I try to self-improve my life. So I assess and reassess the situation. So I know I bring work into personal life, but sometimes it does help. So whatever has been going on, I do, I wanted to do this extracurricular activity for a long time.

But we talked about whether the time is right, but also, I that Once I put my head into something, for example this pageant, then you do encounter the hurdles, but then you tell to yourself actually, is that big enough to stop me? No, it’s not. I can do that. I can go over this task and the next one.

taking it as small little outcomes and fulfilling them until you, you get out on the other side. And it’s more the journey that mattered to me rather than the outcome. So this self-development side of me and to try to feel very much more confident and comfortable in, in the UK here, because I do have the Indian culture, but the African side of Mauritius as well was what I was exploring and I haven’t explored that before.

And this was the first time that I did. So I, yeah, so I felt that I was representing two communities. So that’s what I got out of this even so as you can see, without knowing, this is what I’ll get out of the journey. I made it happen. It happened. I got a crown from it, but the journey mattered the most.

[00:29:03] Mat: And you’re obviously somebody who loves a challenge. What kind of mindset do you need to have in order to like a challenge?

[00:29:14] Heerani: To get better, to improve yourself and try to get better and better. There’s something that somebody, it was a doctor who told me, don’t worry about it, it can only get better. So for example, it was when I was an F1 and I still use that. At any step again, for exams I’ve had to do, I’ve recently got my MRCS general surgery and M-R-C-S-E-N-T, and I didn’t do it at the first go for the MRCS part B, so I was like, it can only get better, do it again.

Same when to be able to come to the UK itself. Back in 2011, I did my A Levels, I got five A stars. But I didn’t get ranked enough, high enough in the thousands of students to get a bursary. You had to be, you had to be the top six of the country. So I did it again because I wanted this bursary and I wanted to come to the UK and I sacrificed a full year.

of restudying and doing everything and managed to come in the top six, got the bursary and landed here. So it’s about yeah, so I do feel this mindset of not giving up. If you have your eye on a very important outcome, it can be a disadvantage sometime, because sometimes if you want something to happen, you really want, but it’s not meaningful, it’s not as significant.

So you also have to know when to let go that something cannot happen. At this point in time, it’s okay. So I struggle with that side of things when I can’t attain something. But so I’m learning to if I’m learning to take failure as a journey as well. Especially with exams and everything, but yeah, this, I think you do need to have a strong perseverance and resilient mindset to be able to undertake challenges and try to persevere and not give up.

[00:30:59] Mat: And I think now that you’ve achieved all of these things, you’ve got a fantastic platform to make the world a better place. And I know that you’re already doing that and you’ll continue to do that, particularly in the women’s empowerment movement. And I know there’s a lot of doctors that I talked to, and they all say, I want to make the world a better place.

I want to change the system. And I don’t know how to, I don’t know where to get started and, and you are changing the world. So if somebody came to you now and said, Hirani, I’d love to do something where I can make a real difference in the world, but I don’t know what to do and where to get started.

What tips would you have for them?

[00:31:35] Heerani: SO first off, I would say come and join my confidence walk and talk program. Perfect. We need a platform. We all need a platform. We all need to be signed posted towards people who like you, making this podcast and let us, it is a platform for me to express myself and to actually also say what I want, but also, I’ve had time to think about this chat today.

So yeah, so I would tell that person to Find me. If it is to do with women empowerment, I am very happy to guide and to give resources, links and everything for that. If I’m not the right person, find the right person. Nowadays, online, on websites, you can easily Google someone and people are happy to help.

That’s what I’ve found that people are happy to help and recently I wanted to invite one of the equalities and diversity Leaders in Nottingham and I just googled the vice chancellor of the Nottingham University found her And yeah, and she replied to me and I was very surprised that she did. I’m just saying these are the things that you can find for yourself.

Educate yourself is what I would endorse. Everything is available online. You have people who have connections have a, so that’s what I would say. And also, if it is something to do with confidence, the Walk and Talk program is basically about trying to, it’s a tailored program to what you would want to achieve as a young female, a doctor.

So I’m opening it up very happily to, to doctors to join and as I said, you can be confident in your own skin at work. But if I put you on a platform, on a stage, public speaking, number one, secondly, would, do you, would you be able to showcase an attire? Some women want to be able to do that, to feel more confident in their skin.

And so I do have platforms for that. So yeah, that’s what I would say is to educate yourself and find the right people.

[00:33:38] Mat: And what will be your top tips for confidence?

[00:33:42] Heerani: So my top tip for confidence would be education for sure educate yourself. So finding what is missing, finding your lacking, your weaknesses and try to work on that, prioritize that so that you can better improve your knowledge and also feel more confident about it.

I do think there’s a link between education about a particular topic. about something and confidence in that particular topic. Once you educate yourself, you find the right people you will be able to achieve what you want to do.

[00:34:15] Mat: And I think that, that sounds so obvious, but people miss that all the time, isn’t it?

People are new to an area and then they don’t feel confident and it’s because, because they don’t know the area, yeah? Once, once you know the area, once you educate, then it’s so much easier to be confident because then you do know what you’re talking about.

[00:34:33] Heerani: Yeah.

And for example, even I’ve moved to this new area what I do, go online, social media, find the areas group, find the community group, join in, see what’s going on in the area. So these are things that are available now, but people probably don’t know, don’t realize that’s what they can do. So these are, yeah, little tips.

[00:34:51] Mat: So we kind of, we, we are back to where we started with you and dancing, which is you’ve just got to go out there and put yourself out there and if you want your life to change, you’ve got to go out there and put yourself out there. Otherwise things will never change. Yeah. Let me bring us to a close.

When it comes to trying to balance interest outside the work with a busy clinical career, what would be your top tips for doctors at work?

[00:35:13] Heerani: I would say time management. And put some time in for planning, give yourself some, your own deadlines before that major deadlines have short term goals and long-term goals, and actually dedicate time to yourself to replenish yourself.

If you feel that you need, it’s something is getting too much and you can’t concentrate on it and a particular activity or a particular project, step out of it, do it another time. Find your music that suits you do the hobby that you would like to do something that you’ve wanted to do for a long time, but you just pushed it away and procrastinated about it.

So I would say to assess and reassess how your, um, clinical life is doing, your personality is doing, and Take all the silver lining as an opportunity to move forward. So if you don’t get something, for example, a post that you’ve wanted in an application, then take this time out to do something that you’ve wanted to do alongside another job that you’re doing.

But so yeah, positive attitude to move on. And also surround yourself by coaches like Mr. Daniel and just listen to his podcasts and things. And it’s amazing to hear that.

[00:36:27] Mat: Wonderful. Thank you very much, Heerani.

[00:36:29] Heerani: You’re welcome. Thank you.